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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11470	Posted - 2015.01.27 22:44:31 - [1] - Quote Not only is justice delightfully served, with a side of carebear tears... But Tippia is back! Hooray! "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11470	Posted - 2015.01.27 22:52:41 - [2] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: I'm sure with some good skills and a lot of luck can indeed counter a gank, that still doesn't mean that the amount of isk, effort and skill to avoid the gank is balanced with the amount of isk, effort and skill to execute it. Ganks are trivially avoided with a T1 frigate equipped with two webs. It doesn't get much lower of an investment than that to avoid getting ganked. And I might add that a swarm of catalysts, an Orca/Bowhead, and a pile of shuttles for sprinkles costs a hell of a lot more than a single T1 frigate. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11471	Posted - 2015.01.27 22:58:16 - [3] - Quote Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: But ganking freighters, that is designed to be solo play? Of course not. The method discussed here takes at least 3 people (1 Ganker, 1 Bumper, 1 Ship supplier), do you know of a method where you can do it solo? I encountered such a thing once, but it involves facpo and forgetful PL jump freighter pilots. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11471	Posted - 2015.01.27 23:03:31 - [4] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: But ganking freighters, that is designed to be solo play? Of course not. The method discussed here takes at least 3 people (1 Ganker, 1 Bumper, 1 Ship supplier), do you know of a method where you can do it solo? I encountered such a thing once, but it involves facpo and forgetful PL jump freighter pilots. One could imagine a well timed duel request just before the webbing alt's duel request might be able to do it as well. "An all syrup super squishie? ...such a thing has never been done!" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11472	Posted - 2015.01.27 23:07:26 - [5] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: If CCP were able to patch players, I'd ask them to patch miners to make them play more effectively to avoid being ganked. As they can't, the only way to alter the balance is to steer the game though mechanics. If you don't get it that time, you never will, so I'm done with repeating myself. I don't think you get it. The correct response is to let them die. Failure to use the existing tools does not equate to a need for a mechanic change. And if they won't change their attitudes and their lazy playstyles, then they exist solely to be food for someone else. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11473	Posted - 2015.01.27 23:24:08 - [6] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Congratulations. Now go get the majority of other players to change their ways and the game will rapidly move towards being balanced. Oh wait, you can't change how the vast majority of players play the game, so it will remain cheap and easy to gank for considerable profit. I guess all is right in the world, because while it's unbalanced, it's some of the player's faults, therefore it's fine. It is balanced. Their failure to play the game correctly does not equate to a mechanical imbalance, what's more. If you play the game correctly, you are all but invincible. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11475	Posted - 2015.01.27 23:43:29 - [7] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Most gankers gank with alts specifically to nullify all consequences. You mean like how Red Frog uses multiple alts and extra contracts to shield the contents of their cargo? Or how people haul with neutral alts to hide? Or how station traders never really undock and can't be touched? Alts exist, Lucas. Deal with it. If you want to tilt that windmill, this is the wrong thread for it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11480	Posted - 2015.01.28 00:23:58 - [8] - Quote I have invented something fun. I call it the Veers Belvar Seal of Disapproval. Basically, anything that Veers disapproves of is highly likely to be a good thing for the health of the game in general. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11481	Posted - 2015.01.28 00:33:42 - [9] - Quote Commentus Nolen wrote: If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention? Do I get a kill mail for destroying them? The beauty of the incredibly unbalanced safety system is that you don't even have to blow yourself up to find out. Try and shoot them with green, if it works, the answer is yes. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11481	Posted - 2015.01.28 00:37:08 - [10] - Quote Annette Nolen wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You mean like how Red Frog uses multiple alts and extra contracts to shield the contents of their cargo? Red Frog does not double-wrap and hasn't for years. Sometimes our clients do it, but our pilots do should not and do not (and get yelled at if caught trying to). Thank you for the correction. Intel file updated. You guys use an alt passing system of some kind though, yes? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11481	Posted - 2015.01.28 00:41:06 - [11] - Quote Annette Nolen wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You guys use an alt passing system of some kind though, yes? Yes we use neutral haulers for wardec reasons, but always via exchange and not double-wrapped couriers. The best (historical) defense against ganking was showing everyone how not valuable our cargo is :) Ah, so your "face" characters pass to neutral haulers. Okay, makes sense. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11483	Posted - 2015.01.28 01:44:54 - [12] - Quote d0ubl3 rainb0w wrote: if the ganker-***-bumper makes the frieghter wait for downtime, is that abuse? According to the GM ruling, you have to "make an effort" to move elsewhere or bumping you does not count as abuse. And being afk doesn't count as making an effort. Nor does being logged out. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11483	Posted - 2015.01.28 01:53:47 - [13] - Quote Dalphon Haman wrote: For the first time I'm thinking about letting my subscription lapse. Just one more tool in the griefers box. Fit for tank and watch it just get whittled down unable to warp because of a bumping mach. This game just gets ridiculous the way the scales are tipped towards the griefers. I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually hoping one of these other space games in development pan out. I just want a game. Not a multiple alts logged in chore, when it comes to moving stuff. Don't let the door hit you. I mean, it's not like you don't already have near perfect safety, and CCP removing awoxing wholesale. Nah, if your sub is contingent on something that is expressly not against the rules being made so just because of QQ, then get the hell out of my EVE and never look back. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11483	Posted - 2015.01.28 02:16:46 - [14] - Quote Rena Senn wrote: Plenty of awoxers were QQ over the friendly fire changes to the point of threatening to quit. There is a big damned difference between the deletion of a playstyle, and something that is obviously not against the rules being stated as such. If you can't figure that out, then you're pretty far gone. Quote: And while gankers always turn to the "perfect safety" refrain whenever carebears complain about poorly implemented mechanics like machariel bumping neutral tackle in hs Bumping isn't going to change for a number of reasons. Chief of which is that if CCP can't even change enough about the game to give us alliance level bookmarks, they damn sure can't redo the physics engine from the ground up. So hopefully you can figure out how that all works together. Quote: they never seem to push for some truly radical forced risk taking like making station traders' inventories gankable. Talk about making money hand over fist in perfect safety. Probably because that isn't broken. They're not in open space, what's more. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11484	Posted - 2015.01.28 02:46:44 - [15] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: Rena Senn wrote: Plenty of awoxers were QQ over the friendly fire changes to the point of threatening to quit. Guess they should stay the hell out as well by your thinking. If they actually quit over the propsed idea, then yeah, I say GTFO. The proposal adds a layer of difficulty to awoxing and, while I do not like the idea of removing risk in any way, I do like the idea of adding new challenges to playstyles. Anyone who quits because things get "too hard", I'm fine without them. That'd be true if it didn't have a 24 hour cooldown and a flashing warning to corpies when it's changed. It's not about "additional difficulty", this is intended to be a removal of the mechanic for anyone who can push a single button. Now all that can reasonably be done is reverse awoxing, inviting people to a friendly fire corp. Personally I've decided to just switch to heavier ganking and scamming, with wardecs mixed in. Likely to officially join Code as well. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11489	Posted - 2015.01.28 03:21:58 - [16] - Quote Rena Senn wrote: [q Not being able to fly through any .5 or .6 system in an entire class of ships because any bored multiboxer can blow up your ship with impunity while expending a fraction of the isk sounds like the deletion of a playstyle to me. It's only possible if the other guy is afk. Afk is not a playstyle. Quote: Awoxers can still con their way into directorship and turn off the corp safety while convincing the rest of the corp that it's business as usual. No, they cannot. It gives a 24 hour cooldown prior to activation, and sends a warning to all corp members the literal moment that starts. Quote: Neither of us know of the technical viability of altering hitbox behavior in highsec. Actually, I do. Because I actually play this game. But clueless people like you will always think that you can just wave a magic wand, yell out "computer code!" and your desires are made manifest. Unless you actually know of a way to debug a two decade old, underwater simulation physics model being press ganged into service as an MMO? Because if not, shut it. Quote: What is and isn't broken is a matter of perspective. Being able to make trillions while having all your assets protected by the equivalent of an impenetrable forcefield with infinite hitpoints at all times looks pretty broken when compared to every other activity that requires you to risk putting assets into space in order to make money. If it's that easy, I'll expect you to put up a screenshot of your first trillion this time next week. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11489	Posted - 2015.01.28 03:44:26 - [17] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: So, another reason for industrial ships to get proper fitting allowances and slots, comparative to other combat ships of their size. No, just another reason to actually be at the keyboard. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11489	Posted - 2015.01.28 03:48:45 - [18] - Quote Rena Senn wrote: You may fat finger all your bumps to the point that you can only ever manange to bump an afker, but people who know what they're doing are fully capable of keeping an atk hauler permanently neutral tackled. You don't actually know how this works, do you? The bumper has to keep the target tackled close to where the Catalyts are being dropped, thanks to their extreme low range. Quote: I also play this game, just like you. Ha ha, no. Quote: Unless you have some actual experience debugging a two decade old, underwater simulation physics model being press ganged into service as an MMO, I'd appreciate it if you would stop shouting "the computer code is too hard!" without giving any demonstration as to how. Well, that, and CCP has outright admitted it several times. They can't change the POS code, they can't change the physics engine for the most part, and they can't change the corp/alliance interactions. Honestly we were lucky they were able to give us the new gate warping animation instead of the old load screen. Quote: I'm not saying it's too easy, but that it's too safe. If I posted a screenshot of my current Jita inventory, can you gank it within a week's time? People can go and wreck your economy if they know what it is, yeah. Are you saying that market PvP isn't a thing? Because if you take a look around, I think you'll find that it is. (also, I can gank your haulers when you try and move inventory if I know who you are, unless you are actually telling me that you just sit and flip in Jita all day, in which case I'll ask you why you pay for a sub in the first place) "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11497	Posted - 2015.01.28 05:32:37 - [19] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: This is great and all, but the feeling I get from the current situation is that the fight for EVE's core integrity has already been lost. Wars are going to be neutered this year, and it's downright ignorant to think that CCP isn't going to go back for a "much needed reevaluation" on this whole "ganking situation" when it rightfully gets overused as the only method of bringing aggression to others. They don't even let us have a thread about awoxing, to say nothing about the possibility of even having a shred of hope of discussing the proposed change with CCP itself. Are you people blind? Do you not see that the only reason they've given hyperdunking the green light is to set it up for failure later on? It's much easier to push changes through when you justify them as "addressing problems" instead of preventing potential ones. And then the game will die, and we'll all go play The Repopulation or Archeage or Dreadnaught or something. If they want to make the final choice to ruin the game and irrevocably **** off their core playerbase, that's their problem. If they haven't learned their lesson by now, they never will, and nothing I say will fix their attitude. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11503	Posted - 2015.01.28 07:37:20 - [20] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Siegfried Cohenberg wrote: Leelo dallasmultipas wrote: Fix: Can't board a ship in space whilst crimflagged? Just like you can't warp off in your ship. if you think for a bit you can find out that hyperdunking is actually easily counterable even after the initial bump Yes, just MJD away as the pointer is concordokken, fit a Higgs anchor and off you go. Oh wait. You forgot to do the first part of his sentence. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11507	Posted - 2015.01.28 08:02:27 - [21] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Unless you're bumped to death by a BS (say, a Machariel), which is a all reward-no risk scenario for the bumper. What CCP calls "fk the PvErs balance". Mechanically, it is completely neutral. The bumper neither gains nor loses anything(well, they lose time. But if that counts, we're all losing time). What you're protesting is the meta result of bumping. And the answer is and will continue to be "too bad, it's easy to avoid anyway". Quote: I am so bloody tired of this garbage. So. Bloody. Tired. Over and over again CCP insists that PvErs have no place and deserve no chance and no choice in their game. Except for how they incessantly buff Concord, barges, haulers, freighters, and remove awoxing. Among other things. Quote:** Want to avoid PvP abuse of a stupid mechanic? PvP yourself. Play our way or go away. No choices. No options. Just fukking PvP, you fukking PvE c*nt. I really don't know what your problem is. Are the simple, obvious ways to avoid being bumped and/or ganked asking too much of you, or what? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11516	Posted - 2015.01.28 08:11:27 - [22] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: ]Or you can rob a corp. That's just corp theft. Quote: Or you can convince them to go to lowsec and kill them there That's just piracy. Quote: or you can bait them into a wartarget alt. And that's just spying and wardeccing. None of those things are awoxing. Quote: The only thing that's been removed is the easiest form of awoxing. The fact that you describe it as the removal of the playstyle shows that you don't want to have to put any effort in, you just want things handed to you. Well tough luck buddy. Ah yes, and the people who want to have friendly fire removed with the push of one button are totally indicative of effort, and such. You are such an enormous hypocrite. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11524	Posted - 2015.01.28 08:39:26 - [23] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Following the change there will no longer be a risk barrier preventing day old noobs being invited into any corp With the exception of that stuff you listed. Corp thefts and spying chief among them. That's what exposes it as a false flag, that it actually does nothing to accomplish it's intended purpose. Quote: which is vitally important in getting new players into a group where they can learn the game and find what they want to do which is vitally important for the NPE. Which is apparently tax farm slumlord highsec corps. Yeah, I can't think of a worse way to hurt retention than to allow those people to operate more safely, so they can poison new players with the most boring content in any contemporary MMO. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11526	Posted - 2015.01.28 09:35:59 - [24] - Quote Astroid Mistress wrote: There is no way to escape this "hyperdunk" tactic once a Machariel has bumped you off alignment if you are in a Freighter. Wrong. Quote: The only way is to log off the game. Also wrong. Everything else in your post is just you ranting based off of these two falsehoods, so you might as well delete it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11532	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:10:27 - [25] - Quote Tippia wrote: Hicksimus wrote: Same old lazy CCP. Fixing this would require work that we cannot be bothered to do right now so it's not an exploit. Not that hyperdunking matters to me(maybe I'm doing it) but CCP takes the lazy route every time something comes up that would require actual work to be done. What's there to fix? And seeing as how they have fixed some actual exploits and broken code in this area in the past, what makes you think that they're just trying to avoid work? Well, that's obvious. Because he doesn't want it to be true. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11535	Posted - 2015.01.28 22:47:58 - [26] - Quote Alana Charen-Teng wrote: I still think it should be called "Globbyganking" ! When asked about it on reddit, globby said it should be called "globbing". "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11547	Posted - 2015.01.30 13:02:33 - [27] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: If we were going to be realistic about it, someone who committed the exact same crime 30 times in a row would be getting a life senten If we're being realistic about it, the cop's response time is thirty minutes, not thirty seconds. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11556	Posted - 2015.01.31 00:29:33 - [28] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: If we were going to be realistic about it, someone who committed the exact same crime 30 times in a row would be getting a life senten If we're being realistic about it, the cop's response time is thirty minutes, not thirty seconds. and then they tell you that there's not much they can do about it because apparently a man in his mid 20s wearing dark jeans and a hoodie isn't a unique enough description. ...Yeah but a license plate number is. Ok, you can have your 30 minute response time, if every time you suicide gank your character spends 3-5 years in prison afterwards Or, we can abandon the ridiculous premise that this imaginary Magic Space Police in any way does or should behave like anything in real life. Since, you know, it's a videogame set in outer space featuring players who are functionally demigods, and all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11556	Posted - 2015.01.31 00:44:23 - [29] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Yeah, I wasn't the one trying to make that leap there chap. No, but you seem to have missed the whole "sarcasm" part of it. "realism" is not something any reasonable person asks for in a freaking videogame. It was just Veers trying to justify his absurd bleating for something that is totally unacceptable in this game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11556	Posted - 2015.01.31 00:50:59 - [30] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Whatever man, how are things? Not bad, my wife is getting out of the hospital soon, so I may actually be able to play the game for the first time in more than a month. Thinking about getting some scamming started, or if I can get an Orca fit up right I might try hyperdunking myself. (just to keep it on topic) Globby really should post a "how to" up on YouTube or something. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11556	Posted - 2015.01.31 01:10:07 - [31] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Globby really should post a "how to" up on YouTube or something. Its rather easy to understand and somewhat harder to pull off. The bowhead that got highlighted more or less tackled himself when he logged off with aggression. I'm aware of that, I meant it more towards encouragement of proliferation of the tactic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11562	Posted - 2015.01.31 04:17:44 - [32] - Quote Rift Tarkken wrote: "Excuse me if I thought this is EVE Online where the game is supposed to take a modicum of effort." - It's only supposed to be harder if you're a miner, mission runner, FW pilot, industrialist, hauler, etc. If you PvP or gank, it needs to be easier. Especially if you are PVP'ing or Ganking one of the above. Didn't you know that? :-) Please point out any way in which mining has punitive mechanical effects. In fact, all those you listed and cried about, have zero mechanical consequences for doing them. (and no, mission running faction rep doesn't count) And only ganking actually has any mechanical repercussion for doing it. So, yeah... shut it, carebear, and play the game already. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11562	Posted - 2015.01.31 04:50:06 - [33] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: you can't dock at any high sec faction warfare station either. Since when? Oh, are talking about mechanics you don't understand again? I mean, those guys who camp Hek are there almost every day. This is not some secret. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11562	Posted - 2015.01.31 05:44:52 - [34] - Quote Dangeresque Too wrote: Except that most -10 pilots don't want to do the things that PvE carebears do, so they could care less if they can't do them with bad sec status. So what? That doesn't mean that the consequence isn't there, it just means that they accept it and deal with it. Quote: So then what is your translation of Concord not letting you board one of your own ships in space if being able to infinitely re-ship and continue a gank is an intended feature? Why should you have to bother going through the trouble of using other peoples ships or moving away just to come back again? Do you know how the game's ownership token system works? Because it really seems like you don't. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11562	Posted - 2015.01.31 06:10:46 - [35] - Quote Hope Alar wrote: I don't see the logic in allowing one guy with 8 catalysts gank a freighter worth far more than his catalysts are worth. How is this avoidable if the pilot were at the keyboard? He has a parner/alt bumping the freighter off, and if the freighter logs off he is dead. You cannot warp off due to the bumping and iirc you cannot safe log because you now have an aggression timer. So if a pilot absolutely wants to kill your freighter for a pittance compared to the ship, there is nothing stopping him? He just has to throw more ships at it. This is a bad decision. Literally every sentence is wrong. Impressive. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11586	Posted - 2015.02.01 05:51:05 - [36] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: It's not a question of being easy...it's a question of having an effective enough criminal justice system to deter repeated illegal ganking of empty freighters. The solution isn't alts, webbing, escorts, etc.... the solution is for meaningful punishments for repeat offenders, so that they need to be much more discriminating about when they commit crimes...and no more of the absurd gankfests in Uedama. No. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11586	Posted - 2015.02.01 06:03:31 - [37] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: And how do you propose that they do that? Being a real player instead of a carebear. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11589	Posted - 2015.02.01 06:27:40 - [38] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: And how do you propose that they do that? Being a real player instead of a carebear. Then why have concord at all? Good point. It's long outlived it's usefulness, and is a painfully antiquated mechanic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11589	Posted - 2015.02.01 06:32:31 - [39] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Hmm. I'll remember that the next time I take a trip to the coin show and bring a few gold bars home. Maybe the real problem is that cargo scanners exist. The real problem is that people like you think that you shouldn't have to put any effort into defending yourself in a PvP game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11589	Posted - 2015.02.01 06:39:01 - [40] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: The real problem is that people like you think that you should be able to do the same things over and over and over again without real consequences. If you really want to go down that road, I'd like to talk about mission running and mining. Besides, just because we deal with and accept the consequences, doesn't mean they don't exist. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11589	Posted - 2015.02.01 06:43:39 - [41] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Sure, never said there were no consequences. I believe what I was saying was that there were no meaningful consequences. Yes, there are, or gankers would be able to fly around in blinged ships, or anything that isn't disposable for that matter. The consequences are there, and are visible because of how they effect the actions of the gankers. You're just butthurt because you think consequences should result in them being unable to gank. Too bad. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11589	Posted - 2015.02.01 06:56:28 - [42] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: What I am saying however, is that in Eve's context , it makes no logical sense that one should be able to repeatedly attack targets in heavily patrolled areas on a daily basis. It also makes no logical sense that the Magic Space Police can find you without fail, scram you without fail, and blow you up without fail. 100% of the time. Or you know what really makes no sense? That you can ever repeat a mission. That same girl can't possibly be kidnapped that many times from exactly the same place. Or heck, the mere fact that missions don't run out, you can do them over and over and over and over from the same agent. That makes no logical sense. Or hey, maybe we're playing a videogame? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11589	Posted - 2015.02.01 07:03:06 - [43] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: You mean because its so hard to find people that are attacking others in broad day light in the middle of busy intersections? I learned to drive in Las Vegas, that isn't hard to believe at all. Police response time even to a ten man gun battle isn't less than ten minutes. Quote: Or the fact that scrams are actually chance based, or that ships die under concentrated fire when they can't escape? No, that the Magic Space Police don't obey any of the game's rules for ships, and are completely arbitrary. They should be tankable, fallible, and not magically show up like they're omnipotent or something. If you actually care about what makes logical sense, and you aren't just trying to twist that statement to your own benefit, you will have to agree. Quote: Well some people are. And judging by your statements, you aren't one of them. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11594	Posted - 2015.02.01 07:13:01 - [44] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: I'm pretty agreeable to most points that are logical. And yet, "the single most explicitly non combat ship in the game should not have a chance against 15+ combat ships" is something you take exception to? Yeah, somehow I don't believe you. You are only talking about "logic" when it serves to advance your heinous agenda. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11595	Posted - 2015.02.01 07:17:40 - [45] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: I could see your point, if that is actually what I'm talking about, but since its not, I will let you continue to believe what you want. Spin all you want. When you are actually willing to discuss something, this thread will still be here. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11596	Posted - 2015.02.01 07:30:45 - [46] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: the ONLY thing I'm talking about is that it makes no logical sense that the same people would be allowed to attack the same targets in the same locations on a daily basis. And the only reason you say that, when you repeatedly ignore other points of logic, is to try and advance a carebear agenda. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11597	Posted - 2015.02.01 07:40:21 - [47] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: Then what exactly are you saying? Valterra Craven wrote: It makes no logical sense that the same people would be allowed to attack the same targets in the same locations on a daily basis. So what? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11597	Posted - 2015.02.01 07:42:53 - [48] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: So what? Shrug Dunno. You guys were the ones arguing against it. I was just pointing it out. There are lots of things in the game that don't make sense, why bother posting about just one thing? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11598	Posted - 2015.02.01 07:48:27 - [49] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Cuse talking about everything that doesn't make sense in eve in the context of a ganking thread would be silly? Spinning again, I see. You're only going after one thing, because you are opposed to ganking. You're just trying to advance a carebear agenda. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11598	Posted - 2015.02.01 08:03:37 - [50] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yes. The reason should be obvious. Sigh And this is why I don't generally get involved in these threads. Gankers would rather troll than have a serious conversation. So I cede to the only thing that is actually obvious. At 2 am its past my bedtime. Good night. I was being serious. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11617	Posted - 2015.02.01 23:22:51 - [51] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: You should not need to be worry about having an empty ship blow up at a huge loss in highsec. The opposite is true. You should always be worried about that. Especially if you're stupid enough to be afk. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11617	Posted - 2015.02.01 23:31:19 - [52] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Criminals are treated differently because they commit crimes. Which is presently true. Facpo, Concord and all. Quote: They could have consequence free PvP in nullsec You actually don't know that you still lose sec status? Are you kidding me? Quote: Gankers can have a dedicated -10 gank alt, and their main is insulated from their criminal conduct. Haulers should have to use their main to haul, that way I can track and wardec them. Instead they use an alt, and their main is insulated from my wrath. Alts exist, dumbass. Deal with it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11617	Posted - 2015.02.01 23:38:38 - [53] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: They could have consequence free PvP in nullsec You actually don't know that you still lose sec status? Are you kidding me? So Tippia, if your argument is that a person must have a basic understanding of game mechanics to be allowed to comment on game changes, then does it follow that Kaarous should no longer be allowed to make comments on this topic? Lowsec, bro. Veers has a long standing misconstruance that anything but highsec = nullsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11617	Posted - 2015.02.01 23:42:25 - [54] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lowsec, bro. Veers has a long standing misconstruance that anything but highsec = nullsec. Given that he explicitly stated nullsec, he was not the one making factual errors. Living in nullsec means that you never set foot in low? Since when? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11617	Posted - 2015.02.01 23:47:54 - [55] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Yet I never once lost sec status in low sec. Did you shoot anybody? Also, there you go, I went and edited it. "outside of highsec", the context we were talking about in the first place. Hopefully you're done being obtuse/pedantic now. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11617	Posted - 2015.02.01 23:59:05 - [56] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You actually don't know that you still lose sec status outside of highsec? Are you kidding me? In LoSec, yes. But I don't think there's any kind of criminal/suspect flag activity in null/WH space. At least, I don't recall ever getting crim flagged for shooting neutrals. True, but lowsec combat happens frequently enough that many, many nullsec bloc members are neg tens. It was especially funny when they had the Caldari Capital ship event last year, with PL in particular flying through highsec like crazy. Local exploded because some people had never seen that many flashies before. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11618	Posted - 2015.02.02 00:08:16 - [57] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Hopefully you're done being obtuse/pedantic now. I doubt it. Because apparently that's the requirement to make "coherent" arguments now. Not making a 4th grade math error might help. In case you haven't gotten it yet, the first gank occurs at "Time = zero". "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11618	Posted - 2015.02.02 00:12:46 - [58] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Not making a 4th grade math error might help. Pot, meet Kettle, both black. The requirement that one must make error free arguments in order to make a valid point is inherently stupid. Yeah, English is not my first language, and I suck at conveying context. Which has, thanks largely to your insistence on pedantry, been edited back into the quote. So, we've established that math and grammar are not the same thing. What next? Are we going to discuss the color of the sky vs the color of grass? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11618	Posted - 2015.02.02 00:30:43 - [59] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Actually one person with many alts can kill multiple things. A guy running 10 clients simultaneously could theoretically pull off 10 ganks per 15 minutes, or 40 ganks an hour, so on average a gank every 1.5 minutes. And since ISBotter is finally illegal now, if they can run ten accounts simultaneously, they deserve it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11619	Posted - 2015.02.02 00:52:04 - [60] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: The fact that one human player can accomplish that is far more troubling than lots of human players working together accomplishing that. Why do you care? You don't want freighters to be attacked at all, the how shouldn't matter. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11619	Posted - 2015.02.02 00:57:44 - [61] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: I personally think that the mechanics should steer crime towards high profitability targets. And I personally think that being afk should be a near guaranteed death sentence. Quote: So empty freighters should be very safe, sure, but not so for ones stuffed with goodies. A billion+ isk killmail should never be safe. Ever. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11625	Posted - 2015.02.02 05:57:20 - [62] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: This still all comes back to all Industrial ships being treated as second class ships when it comes to giving them the ability to actually make creative fits. They are second class ships. If you want combat capability, fly a different ship class. There are no Q ships in EVE, and that's a good thing. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11639	Posted - 2015.02.03 13:03:21 - [63] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: baltec1 wrote: I have never had death threats, threats of lawyers being called and endless insults from null. Maybe you aren't trying hard enough? :P Or maybe you weren't around for the Great War? Either way, I remember some pretty bad stuff from both parties... I don't. And I (the person, not Kaarous) was around for that too. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11641	Posted - 2015.02.03 14:11:13 - [64] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: But the truth of the matter is that some people, for some reason i can't fathom, put themselves in situations they are not cut out for and are not compatible with, and when things go wrong (things that EVERYONE ELSE could see coming two miles away) they freak out and start blaming others for their mistakes. I can't even count the times I've seen someone complain on these very forums about something that happened in game and think "wtf game did you think you were playing?". The best part is that they insist that their misuse of the game be catered to. And the worst part is that it too often is. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11643	Posted - 2015.02.03 23:09:08 - [65] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: You're being intentionally ambiguous in almost every point you're making. Bingo. They're trying to dance around asking for carebear buffs. But it's obvious to anyone who reads the thread. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11643	Posted - 2015.02.03 23:29:32 - [66] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: The idea of a PvP safe area in any game is not inherently valid or invalid. Eve included. Barring being docked, or cloaked up (which is dicey)... it is automatically invalid. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11646	Posted - 2015.02.04 15:21:12 - [67] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The Carebearist zeal to meta-game away people they don't like (this is what they are doing when the lobby CCP for more protections) so that they can gather ever more resources (ie affect the game world) in peace isn't a threat to the 'bad guys', those guys adapt and find a way to screw with people. It's a threat to REAL PVErs who take the time and make the effort to compete with PVP players on their own turf and win. The answer is obvious, then: everyone needs to become a carebear. That's the logical conclusion of the EVE player evolution process! It's the only noble outcome, and the only one that will result in a game that everyone will enjoy! It's emotional fascism at it's finest. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11646	Posted - 2015.02.04 15:23:23 - [68] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: You're telling this to people who don't care how something they want affects other people. Well this works both ways. Gankers don't care how something they want affects their victims. I'm not sure why gankers get a pass and carebears don't. Because we're playing the game. By the rules that exist already. You want the rules changed to favor you even further than they already do, and to hurt the playstyle of others. It's intellectually dishonest to the highest degree to claim any kind of equivalency between the two groups. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11648	Posted - 2015.02.04 15:35:20 - [69] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: If ganking didn't have to use bumping to keep targets in place then I'd agree with you. The whole point of bumping is to avoid the aggression mechanic. But given that this tactic is so heavily used, I don't agree with you. That isn't the point of bumping. It surprises me that you don't know that, given that you've chosen to try and lecture about it. Hint: Gate guns. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11654	Posted - 2015.02.04 23:45:49 - [70] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Of course Destiny Corrupted is correct that the chances of getting ganked are so remote, that it probably makes sense just to forgo tank altogether. Freighters are so safe, that the chance of you losing one, even AFK, is low enough probably just to ignore. You're more likely to get in a real life car accident than ganked in a freighter. Their deaths are exceedingly rare, with very few ship classes having less deaths. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11658	Posted - 2015.02.05 05:36:13 - [71] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Black Pedro wrote: Of course Destiny Corrupted is correct that the chances of getting ganked are so remote, that it probably makes sense just to forgo tank altogether. Freighters are so safe, that the chance of you losing one, even AFK, is low enough probably just to ignore. You're more likely to get in a real life car accident than ganked in a freighter. Their deaths are exceedingly rare, with very few ship classes having less deaths. There's also that matter about many of them being "repeat custromers." I'm not kidding. You'll find that's also true about car accidents. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11676	Posted - 2015.02.05 23:58:15 - [72] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: You are arguing that you shouldn't have to properly protect things you don't want to lose. No, I'm arguing that the level of protection is absurd. Yeah, absurdly too good. It is almost impossible to die if you play with more than half your ass. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11686	Posted - 2015.02.06 10:34:33 - [73] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Freighter ganking is already incredibly rare and you are arguing for NPC-based mechanisms that shift the risk even lower at no additional cost or effort for yourself. How does that make the game more interesting at all? The numbers above already make it completely rational to use the unengaging two-buttons 'Undock' and 'Autopilot' to move everything in highsec. Why should active freighter piloting and the use of other hauling ships be further disincentivized by making AFK freighter hauling even safer? Because some people think that actively not playing the game should be more viable than actually playing the game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11701	Posted - 2015.02.08 12:35:18 - [74] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: I think people complain about it more because they feel powerless to stop it. Of course they're powerless to stop it, they're afk. Quote: The game mechanics currently favor the attacker. Blatantly false. In EVE in general, and highsec in particular, the mechanics favor the defender across the board. Quote: I think its telling that for all the calls of everyone in this thread for players to dispense their own justice that its even "rarer" than ganking is. You're confusing lack of ability with lack of effort. Of course they aren't getting anything done, they aren't real players to begin with. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11708	Posted - 2015.02.08 23:18:16 - [75] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: A broad generalization that you have zero evidence to support. Except for, you know, this thread. The guy who died was afk. Globbing doesn't really work if they aren't afk. Quote: Oh? Its false that people that are grouped together for the sole purpose of killing others and can dictate the time, the place, and the firepower don't have the upper hand in all situations? Yes, because one webbing escort makes all of that moot. Quote: No, what I'm pointing out is the lack of capability. No, you've spent the entire thread crying about how the NPCs don't inflict enough consequences for you. Quote: There are no effective ways to dispense justice. Otherwise there would be someone out there doing so. And yet when wardec corps fight each other, or go after Code, stuff gets done, stuff gets blown up. So it clearly is possible, but not for "rebel miners" and white knights. Because they aren't real players. Nevermind that you're really looking at this the wrong way, to begin with. If you want to hurt gankers, blow up their loot or save the freighter with reps or something. You really don't even have to shoot at them yourself, they're going to die anyway thanks to facpo or Concord. Quote: Given how much you guys argue about this game being a sandbox its telling that out of 500k subs that NO ONE wants to be a bounty hunter. Now this is a dedication to being obtuse, folks. Plenty of people want to be a bounty hunter. But the bounty system is necessarily broken, that's all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11709	Posted - 2015.02.09 12:41:18 - [76] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Well given, that you've admitted that the bounty system is broken, you've admitted that there are no effective ways to dispense justice. And again with the outright lies. There are plenty. But they are pointless if you aren't a real player. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11711	Posted - 2015.02.09 14:36:11 - [77] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Well if its an outright lie, surely it would be easy for you to disprove? Several people have, over the course of the last few days. And you have ignored it every time. Because they don't fit your agenda. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11711	Posted - 2015.02.09 14:38:12 - [78] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: 1. Gankers used the argument that the current mechanics are balanced because miners could dispense justice if they so chose. Also because being ganked is 100% avoidable. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11712	Posted - 2015.02.09 23:41:22 - [79] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Also because being ganked is 100% avoidable. There's always a way. It just a question of how motivated the attacker is. List one, then. Because if you've discovered some perfect gank method, I'd love to hear it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11718	Posted - 2015.02.10 14:09:04 - [80] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: List one, then. Because if you've discovered some perfect gank method, I'd love to hear it. Gank the webber, then catch the freighter on the next out bound. Because if my webber is ganked I'm totally just going to keep going along my route, and not, you know, dock. Nevermind that snagging my Dramiel before it warps is a worthy feat for a Catalyst. I mean, that's just pathetic, if that's all you have to say about it. This has literally never happened to me, and the solution to it easily saves the freighter anyway. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11723	Posted - 2015.02.11 01:07:18 - [81] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Because if my webber is ganked I'm totally just going to keep going along my route, and not, you know, dock. Nevermind that snagging my Dramiel before it warps is a worthy feat for a Catalyst. You don't sound like a dedicated attacker. What? What in the actual hell does that mean? First of all, if they actually want to gank both of my ships at once while they're on grid together, they have about a six second window to actually do it. After that, the freighter is in the air. Secondly, it's a freaking Dramiel. I can kite a Catalyst for more than long enough for them to be destroyed by facpo. Hell I can kite ten of them for long enough. A Thrasher will have some trouble as well, since that thing has a sig radius only slightly higher than a drone, and can get some pretty insane speeds with a T2 afterburner. So please, I would like you to try and explain your ridiculous statements. And hopefully, actually elaborate this perfect gank you keep talking about. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11727	Posted - 2015.02.11 05:04:03 - [82] - Quote And when Veers agrees with you, that's when you know that you're well and truly damned. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11750	Posted - 2015.02.11 23:15:11 - [83] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Whats to explain? Well, for starters, when you were first pressed to give an example of a "perfect gank", you gave the incredibly ignorant answer of "gank the webber", as though you thought that such a thing would actually feasibly work. So you're displaying a large level of ignorance of the very mechanic you've been trying to claim needs a nerf for the last twenty or so pages. Let's start with that. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11752	Posted - 2015.02.12 12:36:28 - [84] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Just in case this wasn't clear the first time: "The point of my logic is to paint you guys into a corner" Translation: "You lot exposed that I was trying to dictate changes based on a position of total ignorance, so now being deliberately obtuse is all I have left." I never thought I'd say this, but I miss Dinsdale. At least he was actually inventive and fun to read, not a total bore shoveling doggerel at everyone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11752	Posted - 2015.02.12 14:20:45 - [85] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Translation: "You lot exposed that I was trying to dictate changes based on a position of total ignorance, so now being deliberately obtuse is all I have left." I never thought I'd say this, but I miss Dinsdale. At least he was actually inventive and fun to read, not a total bore shoveling doggerel at everyone. Translation: you guys would rather name call and tear people up rather than make actual arguments. Actually, it's more like we're openly mocking you, since actually making arguments just resulted in you ignoring them repeatedly, while trolling away with the same old narrative. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11752	Posted - 2015.02.12 14:23:53 - [86] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Well, at least you can admit that you're a douchewaffle, since I actually responded to every single argument you guys made pointing out their flaws. On the literal previous page, you outright admitted that you're just trolling and that you have no clue what you're talking about. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11752	Posted - 2015.02.12 14:27:16 - [87] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Spewing logical fallacies is not pointing out a flaw. Sure, if I had done that, but considering I didn't.... No, you did. He might not have used a strong enough plural, though, since you've probably snagged the record for the forums. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11752	Posted - 2015.02.12 14:30:14 - [88] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: On the literal previous page, you outright admitted that you're just trolling and that you have no clue what you're talking about. On the literal previous page I outright admitted to a debate tactic by which you forced me to use because of your asshattery. No, you're simply being obtuse because you lack any knowledge about the subject you've chosen to soapbox about. You're arguing out of a position of pure ignorance, simple as that. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11752	Posted - 2015.02.12 14:33:12 - [89] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No, you're simply being obtuse because you lack any knowledge about the subject you've chosen to soapbox about. You're arguing out of a position of pure ignorance, simple as that. Oh right, still clinging to the tear down the debater rather than the arguments tactic... Your arguments remain countered, long hence. All you've done so far is spill out more tears about how you aren't able to pontificate from ignorance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11753	Posted - 2015.02.12 23:14:28 - [90] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: The problem comes in because a lot of these mechanics don't have counters. Except that they do. You lot just reject them because they take more effort than zero. You've demonstrated that quite clearly. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11755	Posted - 2015.02.12 23:17:54 - [91] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Ned Thomas wrote: Well, everything does have a counter. Not according to Kaarous Aldurald. Wow, you're dense. Simply stating that a Dramiel can, in fact, kite a typical gank ship apparently constitutes not having any counter at all. Color me surprised that you said something that dumb. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11759	Posted - 2015.02.13 12:42:29 - [92] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Color me surprised that you aren't man enough to admit that your original statements were nothing but trolling. You wouldn't even know what they are. You aren't actually arguing, just mouthing off without any actual substance. You have outright admitted this. You have no facts, no proof, and no value in anything you say. Merely some rambling about a perfect gank method, that you blatantly failed to materialize on. Pathetic. Even Lucas, as banal as he is, is better than this. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11759	Posted - 2015.02.13 16:08:10 - [93] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: This is what we have so far, though I will refrain from commenting on the efficiency of this and will leave that to the "experts". If you had only had this thought before posting in this thread in the first place. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11759	Posted - 2015.02.13 16:10:33 - [94] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Are you going to continue arguing that your tactics have no counter, or are you going to admit that there is at least one scenario where they can be thus proving that ganks are not 100% avoidable outside of not doing anything in game. Regardless of whether the specific tactic of webbing a freighter into warp is counterable or not (it is), that does not change the fact that being ganked is 100% avoidable. Those two things are not contradictory. If you are ganked in highsec, it is your own fault. Period. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 00:44:57 - [95] - Quote Hiasa Kite almost has it figured out, although it's eluded the carebear still, so far. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 02:17:31 - [96] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Hiasa Kite almost has it figured out, although it's eluded the carebear still, so far. Well I see you still haven't figured out to how to make an actual argument other than to say "carebear bad!". Still got nothing, huh? That's okay though, I didn't expect any better. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 02:33:36 - [97] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: If I still have nothing then at least we are on even terms. That's not how this works. Are you at least going to try and figure out how webbing a freighter can be countered? Or just complain? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 02:45:47 - [98] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Why would I do that? And once again, you admit you're trolling. Quote: You guys claim that education is the answer and that everyone else whose a carebear doesn't know what they are talking about. So please, by all means, educate! No. You fully deserve to wallow in ignorance and loss. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 02:49:07 - [99] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: You're not even making sense any more. Lol, that would imply I ever made sense... And yet another admission that you're only here to troll. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 02:54:46 - [100] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: And once again, you admit that you have no argument. I do, you're just ignoring it because it doesn't fit with your skewed view of how this game works. Ganks are avoidable. Period. If someone gets ganked, it is their own fault. If you can't wrap your head around that truth, that is your problem. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 03:07:29 - [101] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: If someone gets ganked, it is their own fault. Nope. Still yep. If it could have been avoided, but wasn't, the fault lies with the person failing at evasion. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 03:14:27 - [102] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Still yep. If it could have been avoided, but wasn't, the fault lies with the person failing at evasion. Still nope. If it could have been avoided, but wasn't, the fault lies with the person pulling the trigger. Not true, because PvP is a valid playstyle. Failing to defend yourself is not a valid playstyle. Ergo, the fault lies with the person failing to defend themselves, and no one else. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 03:20:37 - [103] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Nope. Yes. Being bad at the game is not a valid playstyle. Quote: The fault always and will forever lie with the aggressor. This has been true since before Eve, and this will be true well after Eve is long gone. Nope. Dangle a steak in front of a lion, and the lion will eat it. If he takes your hand too, it's your own fault for dangling a steak in front of a lion. Fault always lies with those who fail in their own defense. That is a law of nature. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 03:35:52 - [104] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Except, your argument, taken to its logical conclusion, is that the victim is always at fault. And in a videogame in general, and EVE Online in particular, this is the truth of the matter. Defend yourself, or die. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 03:40:34 - [105] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: And in a videogame in general, and EVE Online in particular, this is the truth of the matter. Defend yourself, or die. And yet the game has mechanics like concord deeming that the aggressors are at fault and are killed. No, merely consequences. The only one at fault is the one who died an easily preventable death. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 03:50:07 - [106] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No, merely consequences. Because consequences denote something other than fault? Of course. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11765	Posted - 2015.02.14 04:32:28 - [107] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Its created so that the by product of enjoyment happens. Nope. They were created to pass the time, originally. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11776	Posted - 2015.02.15 00:05:04 - [108] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: The only problem with your analogy is that in real life cargo scanners don't exist. ... you must be kidding me. Never heard of a shipping manifest? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11777	Posted - 2015.02.15 01:54:08 - [109] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: The problem is that compared to industrails or transport ships that the freighter's costs in no way reflects the actual value of the ship. How so? It can get a quarter of a million hitpoints and still have vastly more cargohold than any other ship class. If you can't make your money back on that, then you're doing it wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11777	Posted - 2015.02.15 01:57:11 - [110] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: [qu Never heard of bribes? Info aint free and it usually aint cheap either. Have you ever investigated a shipping company's manifest data? Or their computer systems? Most of them still use Windows XP for crying out loud, you can hack that with a cell phone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11777	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:04:02 - [111] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: No. You only get high HP values if you fit for tank, and then you know what you don't have? A lot of cargo. Or you can fit for cargo and have no tank. Either way, its cost in no way reflects its capabilities. Yeah, it does. It's a capital ship, and it has exponentially better abilities than a regular hauler. Or have you not figured out yet that cost and abilities don't scale linearly? You know, a basic tenet of EVE's game balance? Quote: I didn't say you couldn't. Yes, you did. You said that you would quit the game before earning it back. And if that's true, you're doing it hilariously wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11777	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:05:58 - [112] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: [qu Oh so you are an expert on hacking things now? My degree is in cyber security, although I'm also well trained in other communications technology. Quote: The same people knocking off trucks on the free way are not going to be the same ones hacking computers. Yeah, just like how the guy using the cargo scanner isn't going to be shooting the freighter. Duh. Quote: Experienced hackers aren't cheap either. Yeah, they are. You can buy stolen metadata for fifty bucks these days. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11777	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:07:13 - [113] - Quote Are you actually trying to mouth at me about how you're a SysAdmin? The McDonald's manager of the computing world? Yeah, okay buddy, you go right on being proud of that. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11777	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:18:02 - [114] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: In name only. And, you know, in the game's database. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11777	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:20:29 - [115] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yeah, they are. You can buy stolen metadata for fifty bucks these days. Because meta-data is the hole picture and mobsters are good at deciphering things like that? You'd be surprised at how sophisticated criminals are. I wouldn't, because I actually bother to educate myself beyond my cubicle walls. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11777	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:26:02 - [116] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You'd be surprised at how sophisticated criminals are. I wouldn't, because I actually bother to educate myself beyond my cubicle walls. Well given that you'd rather talk about hacking than the more likely threats like Social Engineering, which are much harder to counter, and much cheaper to execute, I don't believe you've shown me that you have. Social Engineering is far, far more likely to be used for identity theft than for theft of corporate data. That's pretty basic, dude. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11777	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:30:15 - [117] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Social Engineering is far, far more likely to be used for identity theft than for theft of corporate data. That's pretty basic, dude. Given that I have several decades of experience stating otherwise. I will have to disagree with you. Be my guest, everyone is welcome to be wrong. But given the numerous, high profile data thefts in the past year or so, it's obvious to anyone who cares to look what the truth of the matter is. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11778	Posted - 2015.02.15 02:42:07 - [118] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Because just about every high profile news story I've seen of the past year like the Target and Home Depot breaches were for what? That's right ,people's personal info. Not for actual corporate data. Stealing a few thousand logins, credit card numbers, etc, is corporate data. Because it's not individual data, but a far larger group held by a drumroll corporation! I mean, Jeez, you don't get to redefine things just to suit you. Quote: In fact, the only high profile case that wasn't about that was the recent Sony breach, and even then that wasn't to steal anything for the purpose of monetary gain, given that those were state conducted acts for the name of country. There goes your credibility. The Sony hack was not, in fact, by North Korea. They don't have anything close to the internet backbone required to download that much data in the timeframe. Sony is now widely believed to have been an inside job, by someone who had given themselves access they weren't supposed to have. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11778	Posted - 2015.02.15 03:24:07 - [119] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Your point was that hacks were primarily used to steal corporate data while social engineering was used to steal info for identity theft. You claimed that social engineering is used to steal corporate data, and you lied. I said that social engineering is most often for identity theft, and that is the truth. That doesn't mean that other things aren't also used for identity theft too. But individual data in extremely large collections is corporate data when it's held by a corporation. Quote: But given that a vast majority of the high profile hacks recently were to steal data for identity theft and not for you know "corporate secrets" then you are flat out wrong. I did not say "corporate secrets", that's just you making up a strawman because you have no actual argument. Quote: My point was that high profile hacks are not widely used to steal data like shipping manifests or other corporate secrets but instead are more likely to be committed by people looking for info used in identity theft. And you're still arguing against a strawman. All I said was that you can hack shipping manifests easily, in counter to your lying about how apparently there is no real world analogy to cargo scanners. This whole thing started with you lying. Again. Stop lying. Quote: The Sony example given the data you are arguing perfectly proves my point. No, it proved that you get your "facts" from headline news, which explains why you're so very wrong so very often. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 04:31:55 - [120] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: In other words, you've listed no concrete high profile cases were hacking was done to steal corporate data of the type that would relate to this particular thread. And once again you're just talking to a strawman. You tried to claim that there is no real life analogy to cargo scanners. (in typical carebear fashion, in which you only want realism that benefits you) You're wrong. Accept it and admit it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 04:46:52 - [121] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: And once again you aren't actually make a counter argument. No, I am not going to respond to your strawman. Now admit that you lied. There is a real world analogy to cargo scanners. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 04:49:21 - [122] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Prove that I lied. I already did. You claimed there was not a real world analogy to a cargo scanner. There is. Stop lying. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 04:59:24 - [123] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Which has still not been proven false. It has been, repeatedly. Your claim that there is no real world analogy to a cargo scanner was a blatant lie. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:12:07 - [124] - Quote The astonishing hypocrisy of carebears, ladies and gentlemen. We need to add more inexplicable space magic to Concord, so they can put more consequences on gankers. Because having to defend myself is totally out of bounds. But cargo scanners!? Oh no, that's gotta go. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:16:21 - [125] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: You know what a cargo scanner is? Pretty close to instantaneous. And in a world with faster than light travel, you find that unreasonable. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:17:16 - [126] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The astonishing hypocrisy of carebears, ladies and gentlemen. Is no different than the astonishing hypocrisy of gankers. "This is PVP game!" "The way to win the game is not die, and the way to do that is avoid PVP!" Uh, what? That's kinda how you win a PvP game, by not dying. Or do you play Call of Duty by whelping repeatedly, having a 0.1 K/D, and then claiming victory? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:20:19 - [127] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That's kinda how you win a PvP game, by not dying. And given everything said in this thread, the way not to die is to actively avoid PVP. Well, only if you make the choice to be a prey animal. If you're a predator, you kill the other guy and feast on his remains. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:26:49 - [128] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: No one actively makes a choice to be prey. Yeah, they do. Fitting a ship without guns and tank is choosing to be prey for anyone who feels like doing something about it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:30:54 - [129] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: fitting a ship without guns and tank is choosing to be prey for anyone who feels like doing something about it. Except that freighters don't have hi-slots, and tank is not the only valid fitting choice. They're not supposed to have highslots. That's exactly what I'm talking about, if you're flying a freighter, you are a prey animal. Act accordingly. And if you want to anti tank, be my guest. It's always so much easier that way. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11779	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:36:17 - [130] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: if you're flying a freighter, you are a prey animal. Nope. This is not true in any civilized society of which hi-sec encompasses. New Eden does not count as a civilized society, bro. It's the Wild West at best, even in highsec. If you fly a freighter, you are a big, gigantic killmail for whoever decides to take it. You should be acting accordingly, and defending yourself. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11780	Posted - 2015.02.15 06:40:36 - [131] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Which is only your opinion. No, it's CCP's opinion. Please see the Falcon Punch for reference. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11787	Posted - 2015.02.16 00:10:11 - [132] - Quote AkJon Ferguson wrote: I don't agree with this decision at all. If it looks like an exploit and sounds like an exploit, it's an exploit. Then I'm sure you'll be fully in favor of the removal of dec dodging. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11791	Posted - 2015.02.16 08:45:48 - [133] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Avoiding Concord was said to be bad ju ju . This is not entirely the same, but similar with much less efficiency of course. It's not avoiding Concord. The ships are still destroyed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11792	Posted - 2015.02.16 09:50:01 - [134] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Funny really how "creative" things get in highsec. If you repeatedly keep trying to build walls around people, don't be surprised when they eventually find ways to knock them down. Quote: I think that nullsec and lowsec have become so crappy that even the PVPers and "pirates" (using that term loosely here) won't, or cannot, go there any more. That's inevitable so long as highsec's income streams are more stable, reliable, and safe, leading to better individual income. Quote: Oh I'm sure the buttmad patrol will blame it all on highsec and "people won't leave it!" as if feeding ships to gate camps is supposed to be a play style or something somebody wants to do. You can't blame the predators for going where the prey are. And since the prey have an income stream that equals or exceeds (most frequently the latter) every other area of space, the prey have no reason to leave either. Quote: And I cannot blame them for the reasons I already cited. But the people on the PVP sides of things are not innocent. If we are to be buttmad over "nerfs to ganking" in highsec, we are wasting our energy for we all need to be buttmad over so many people being bottled up in highsec for it to even be needed and/or matter in the first place. But then, looking at RL politics, people blaming the wrong stuff is not really a new thing. You're not giving the PvP side enough credit. More than a few of us are fully aware that the problem is the existence of highsec in it's present state. It's too safe, and too lucrative, and there is no reason to go anywhere to do anything else. Fixing this requires nerfing highsec income streams and buffing highsec conflict. CCP however, does not seem to have it in them to make the attempt to get the carebears off the teat. Quote: Sad too. The lore in this game is getting really good EVE has lore? I thought they threw all that away when they wasted nearly half a decade trying to get us to play Barbie dolls in the captain's quarters. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11801	Posted - 2015.02.16 20:26:48 - [135] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: You've spent literally this entire thread telling "carebears" that they have no one to blame for their destruction but themselves. But you here you aren't willing to stand up to the same scrutiny. "Oh its CCP's fault that we find null sec space unstable, unreliable, and unsafe." Right. I said none of those things. Merely that, in comparison, the rewards for living there are not commensurate to the risk of living there. Highsec unbalances the entire game, that's why so freaking many people live there. Oh, and just so everyone knows, you are a liar and a fraud. But most importantly, someone who argues about things they are wholly ignorant about. I mean, you only spent two entire pages arguing how real hacking doesn't happen at all, and something about cargo scanners and packing peanuts and shiny mylar balloons. Quote: I find it hilarious that pro-gankers spend all day every day making arguments that they aren't willing to live under themselves. And yet again you're just making ** up. I tank my freighter, I web my freighter, I use d-scan and I don't afk in open space, or if I do (fire alarm), then I expect to come back to my corpse. No matter what part of space I am in. Quote:** Pro-gankers have spent this entire thread telling people that asking for changes to make the game better for them is bad, while on the back hand doing exactly the same thing and having the nerve to tell everyone else they are nothing but hypocrites! Idk about any of my fellows, but after seeing you mealy mouthed hypocrites doing that for a decade, I kinda gave up on live and let live. I don't want people like you to enjoy the game, period. You deserve nothing less. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11803	Posted - 2015.02.16 21:29:37 - [136] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Yeah I would want to disect anything that claimed Low sec had more pvp kills than that much killing. However FW might have given a nice boost to that. Faction Warfare, in which large numbers of small ship combats occur fairly frequently, likely makes up a large portion of that. Quote: Either way, you can't prove Highsec is safe, I can't prove it is dangerous. It can be proved that it's safe, actually. There's a much larger amount of people in highsec. And somehow nullsec has 3.5 times as many deaths. That's about as safe as it gets. Conversely, any area of space with that little kills compared to it's population size cannot, in any way, be said to be dangerous. You don't get to disagree with facts and say that it's just your opinion. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11803	Posted - 2015.02.16 21:31:56 - [137] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The problem is not "grrrr highsec" the problem is that highsec still matters. But if "they" got their wish and got their nerfs or remove Concord or whatever, the choice will be to get stomped or unsub. Yeah, God forbid that people actually have to play the game. AFK all the way, that's the better idea. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11809	Posted - 2015.02.17 13:12:55 - [138] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Who is AFK? See what you are doing? You are becoming un-hinged and going off the map. Then I'd like to know what in the actual hell you're talking about. Because if you say that the problem is that highsec still matters, but then rampantly oppose any proposed measures to take away some of it's over relevancy, then I have no freaking idea what you are talking about, or what you think is a good path for the game. As best I can tell, you and I both think that the problem is the same, you're just rejecting that based on who's saying it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11809	Posted - 2015.02.17 13:14:30 - [139] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Rain6637 wrote: this ruling on hyperdunking will stand until a veldnought gets ganked. Pfft. Someone else can do that. I sure as hell won't. How much hitpoints does that thing have, anyway? That'd be a heck of a lot of catalysts. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11809	Posted - 2015.02.17 13:40:35 - [140] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Rain6637 wrote: this ruling on hyperdunking will stand until a veldnought gets ganked. Pfft. Someone else can do that. I sure as hell won't. How much hitpoints does that thing have, anyway? That'd be a heck of a lot of catalysts. I'd be more concerned about its active tank. It's not like a cap fleet's going to alpha it off the field. He can't fit mods. Just mining lasers and mining drones, and MLUs. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11809	Posted - 2015.02.17 14:27:51 - [141] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Ooooh. I didn't know that. That makes sense, considering the rules on HiSec caps. Yeah. It still has a crapton of hitpoints regardless, but I'm curious to see how the math would work out. Whoever knocked off Chribba would be space famous for a long time to come. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11810	Posted - 2015.02.17 14:45:42 - [142] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Hiasa Kite wrote: Ooooh. I didn't know that. That makes sense, considering the rules on HiSec caps. Yeah. It still has a crapton of hitpoints regardless, but I'm curious to see how the math would work out. Whoever knocked off Chribba would be space famous for a long time to come. I'd be content just watching the majesty of it all. Plus I could say "I was there" which would be pretty awesome. I'm pretty sure that there can be no better killmail. It's the white stag of killmails. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11811	Posted - 2015.02.17 14:58:58 - [143] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I'm pretty sure that there can be no better killmail. It's the white stag of killmails. Like hunting an endangered species. And then eating it. In full view of an environmentalist convention. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11819	Posted - 2015.02.17 23:17:12 - [144] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: I have already pointed out four things that need to change: gates, targeting, resources, and SOV. Every time I do, you or your ilk shoots it down. Make those changes I proposed and highsec becomes a starter zone, not by some arbitrary mechanic, but because nobody will want to stay there. Don't make those changes yet complain about the end result of not making those changes, and your sincerity if not your reading comprehension falls into doubt. Okay, so you think those four things need changed. What about them, and why? And how does that change highsec's basic problems? And also, how is that different from what I'm proposing? I want highsec to be more friendly towards conflict, less obscenely lucrative, and much less of a radical departure from every other area of space. Because we both seem to agree that it's too much right now, that's why everyone lives there. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11834	Posted - 2015.02.19 03:10:38 - [145] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Bingo. Church of HTFU dogma is all about ISK. sigh No, it's not. It's about the fact that I love this game, and I'd rather not see it die of stagnation because CCP is unwilling to address the sacred cow of highsec. As for "buff everywhere else instead!", I don't think that's feasible, nevermind that you and I are talking about near complete equivalents as far as the end results on the players is concerned. The reason buffing other areas of space will not work is that it creates runaway inflation. Inflation, as you might know, dramatically hurts new players since their ability to generate PvE income scales much less well than everyone else in the game. Their relative purchasing power is cut sharply. (this is in evidence merely in the cost of T1 ship prices over the last five years. That's inflation at work. What used to cost a new player a few hundred thousand isk, now costs 1 or 2 million. But their income from L1 and L2 missions has remained unchanged. Quote: The best indication is this: when the new scanning came about in 2009, the people running lowsec missions or mining started getting slaughtered wholesale because any monkey with probes could scan them out. I remember numerous long threads about it. There was the usual HTFU rhetoric that overlooked that yes, there are ways not to get scanned out in a mission and get ganked, but if you can't even finish said mission it's still a loss. (I recommended that lowsec needed a different mission profile, something more involved with speed that had more challenge but took less time) . Wait... didn't you, just before this part, go off about "mechanics that make playing the game more of a headache"? Or does that only apply when it benefits carebears? Quote: Just like the mission runner who won't "chance" it in lowsec, the PVPer don't want to chance it either. Mechanics. All around. And wrong. Again. Predators go where the prey are. Since CCP hasn't provided any real reason for the prey to live anywhere else, the prey mostly live in highsec. Well, that and nullsec, but then if I recall correctly you have a huge problem with afk cloaking, one of the few reasonable ways to actually get at people in null, either. And through all of this, you are missing the real problem. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11835	Posted - 2015.02.19 06:05:42 - [146] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Hyperdunking is just another invention of the "predators" who are just as much over a barrel as their prey, and like AWOXing and Aggro-fu, it will get overused. I warn you people that making the sandbox less about sand will threaten it, and then the playground monitor has to intervene. And then you will complain about that too. Stop blaming us for using some of the few avenues we have left to actually play the game. Your mentality is that, unless we want to have things taken away from us, we better not use them. That's a pathetic way to live, and it handcuffs people every bit as much as the consequences you're promising. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11835	Posted - 2015.02.19 06:17:21 - [147] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: I'm trying to tell you why you have so few avenues left. No, you're trying to blame people who are playing the game. In defense of people who actively aren't. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11837	Posted - 2015.02.19 11:51:23 - [148] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: What's wrong with cloaky camping? Are they earning ISK while AFK? No, and that's the important distinction that they will go well out of their way to ignore. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11837	Posted - 2015.02.19 12:32:15 - [149] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: As you spend most of your time in hisec you are not aware of people who ask for ISK to leave system, so yes they can earn ISK. That's a meta activity. You can just as easily make them sing you a song too. There is no mechanical benefit derived from it, and therefore it is not an income generation activity. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11851	Posted - 2015.02.20 00:49:24 - [150] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: "Few avenues left to play the game." So now killing the easy targets in highsec is the whole game? Wardeccing, ganking, and baiting newbs and dumbs - that's the whole game? That isn't what I said. Deliberately mischaracterizing my statements just shows that you don't have any answer for them. My playstyle is "pirate", if we have to go by the EVE website. So please, tell me. Why do you lot cry about my playstyle being allowed to exist in highsec? Why do you cry when you get it nerfed and we find a way around it? Do you seriously think you should be allowed to just afk your way through the entire game? I already know the answer, by the way. You think non consensual PvP shouldn't be a thing. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11851	Posted - 2015.02.20 05:48:58 - [151] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Kills should require risk and effort. I could say the same thing about income generation mechanics. Quote: I do not think 5-10 year old players should be sitting in highsec greening their kb with proteus vs retriever fights. And I think that if you want e-honor, then you're playing the wrong game. EVE is about player freedom, not samurai bushido in space. If you want them to have a "fair fight", go kill them yourself. Or do you just want the NPCs to do that for you, too? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11851	Posted - 2015.02.20 08:26:20 - [152] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: And you lot are complaining about hisec ISK generation when it is not anywhere near what people generate in deepest Deklin for example. Then why are you complaining about interceptor buffs above? Nothing has hurt ratting in nullsec more than that. Not cloaks, not cynos, nothing. Buy some consistency. Quote: The issue with this hyperdunking approach is the impact on offline POS's, amongst all the carnage in Niarja, I saw a number POS module takedowns, it included a corp hanger and a ship bay, the losses were enourmous. It may be that the player who let it go offline is hardly playing, however he did not have a war dec warning him of someone desiring the goodies in his tower, nope, they just got taken out no warning, this is a massive change. That's a good thing. Offline POS'es squatting in highsec for eternity is abominable. Anywhere else in the game it would be dead in hours, but in highsec you can actually just turn the **** off and be fine, because CONCORD. Quote: And you people also talk about hisec being safe, the massive numbers of freighters blowing up proves otherwise Massive? Okay, let's take a stroll through zkillboard, shall we? On the 19th of February, there were 24 freighters killed in highsec. Of those, fully half were killed in Uedama or Niarja. Known hotspots. (meaning, no escort) Looking at those, most of them were anti tanked, with no escort, and looking at the circumstances most likely afk. So yeah, I'd have to say that highsec is pretty safe. Hell there are more car accidents in my backwood hometown on an average day than freighters ganked in highsec. Quote:** it is now too easy for player killers, laughingly so. Because people who were afk, anti tanked, with no escorts died while going through the two most highly trafficked gank spots in the game? I think not. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11853	Posted - 2015.02.20 09:23:46 - [153] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: When I log on I find a report that a freighter is caught, so I head over there, the guy was in a Charon, he had an alt webbing it, he was not AFK, yet he was still bumped, they took two goes to kill him because people tried to help him. That in itself blows your AFK smokescreen away. Yeah, and sets up the "my God he sucks" line instead. Properly webbed, a freighter is vulnerable for less than eight seconds. Quote: Lets repeat he was not AFK and he had a webber yet he was bumped before he could web his freighter into warp, so much for your think not... No, it still applies fully. Your one, possibly imaginary friend fouling up and getting killed while using one of the most overpowered tricks in the game is not proof of anything, let alone that highsec is too dangerous. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11853	Posted - 2015.02.20 10:04:14 - [154] - Quote Aralyn Cormallen wrote: One thing I've always wondered is if people think to use is other people as bait. If I was someone who absolutely had to get through that particular choke-point, and was aware gankers were active, I'd be watching every previous gate, looking for a juicy mark to take the hit in my place. Get in formation with them, take the jump alongside, then hold cloak til the bumper is making a move on my unwitting accomplice. Not useful if you are being targetted specifically for your cargo, but if you're well under the profit threshold and fear just being targetted for the sake of targetting someone, letting someone else be your tank seems the obvious. You don't have to be faster than the predator, just the rest of the prey. That would require being at your keyboard. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11853	Posted - 2015.02.20 10:18:32 - [155] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Dracvlad wrote: But you are part of the best organised and most effective coalition in the game, we are talking about hisec here which is made up of people in the main just doing their own stuff in glorious oblivion, its like herding cats, some are smart that is for sure, but the vast majority, nope and in any case the cargo often dos not matter... Why exactly should the stupid and the lazy be protected from their own actions? Because if they aren't, they'll quit and EVE will die without them, apparently. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11855	Posted - 2015.02.20 11:19:11 - [156] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: No, your guys locked him and scrammed him as he decloaked, then the Mach got a bump on him Wait, what? They scrammed him first and then... bumped him away from the scram? It sounds like you're just tacking on more parts to make the lie plausible. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11857	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:41:25 - [157] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Dracvlad wrote: No, your guys locked him and scrammed him as he decloaked, then the Mach got a bump on him Wait, what? They scrammed him first and then... bumped him away from the scram? It sounds like you're just tacking on more parts to make the lie plausible. Once he is bumped he cannot warp so it does not matter, either your trolling or you are ignorant of certain mechanics, which would surprise me. You said he had an escort. If he was bumped he could still have warped if the escort got involved. Your story has holes in it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11857	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:47:01 - [158] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: He had a webbing escort, they used a noob ship to scram him then got the bump on and kept bumping him, he asked for help and some people came, he survived one attempt, but not the second, but his ship ended up with holes in it, lots of them, if you like holes of course and who doesn't? So. They scrammed him first with a noob ship, then bumped him. Correct? Or did they attack the escort too? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11857	Posted - 2015.02.20 14:13:33 - [159] - Quote So, hold on here. You said he survived one attempt, only to die to the second. How exactly did that work? I mean, in that whole time the escort plus whoever else decided to help couldn't get him out? I find this hard to believe. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11864	Posted - 2015.02.20 23:11:22 - [160] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: That thread seems to be missing something. Store offers aren't free. So in other words you can't just do a straight conversion of 1k lp into 1-2million isk because store offers cost items and money. Basically what ever the missions pays out in isk and bonus isk is sunk back into it when you convert the lp into items. Do you even play the game? I hate, I mean I truly despise the PvE activity in this game and even I know better than this. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11864	Posted - 2015.02.20 23:14:39 - [161] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Kills should require risk and effort. Highsec pvp currently expects little to none of wardec spammers. That's the fault of the people living there, not the mechanic of wardecs. The mechanic itself is in fact highly weighted in favor of the defender. Quote: The fact that you repeatedly deny this makes me think your sole interest is in CCP subsidized content for your playstyle. Says the carebear.... Quote: I look at you and your associates' killboards and I laugh. Most of you hardly even log on. Mine? Yeah, this character's killboard sucks, he's a logi pilot. As for how often I log in, lately you are correct, but that's largely a result of my wife having been hospitalized late last year. The game takes a backseat to real life. But hey, any more ad hominem? Or are you actually going to try and argue the point? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11864	Posted - 2015.02.20 23:35:55 - [162] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Oh no, not 41 carriers (some of which consensual pvp) in your whole space!!! 295 Marauders in Osmon system alone... what were you saying? That the difference between losing a ship in fundamentally dangerous space and fundamentally safe space shows a huge gap in player skill? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11865	Posted - 2015.02.21 13:00:50 - [163] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: That was the battleship numbers that I took from Zkill which were lost in Osmon in February, so wrong, we are talking PvP here not just ganked The thread is literally about ganking. Stop trying to pad your stats to suit your agenda. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11870	Posted - 2015.02.21 23:41:26 - [164] - Quote baltec1 wrote: High sec being more dangerous is nothing but a lie. And that's the crux of the matter, right there. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11870	Posted - 2015.02.21 23:57:31 - [165] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: baltec1 wrote: High sec being more dangerous is nothing but a lie. And that's the crux of the matter, right there. What that you guys are lying to us and yourselves? No, that you people think that if you lie often enough about highsec supposedly being dangerous, that eventually CCP will believe it, despite having the literal stats that show it for the lie that it is. Why do carebears lie so much, anyway? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11870	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:04:06 - [166] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: You wanted stats, now put your money where your mouth is and admit you were wrong. Congrats, you're using 2 months of the year and making an error that a 3 week Statistics 101 student would laugh at. Here's the real story, from CCP themselves no less. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65749/1/productionVsDestruction_2013.png Now put your money where your mouth is, and admit that you lied. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11870	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:09:31 - [167] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Production does not equal anything into this discussion. Try reading the right side of the graph. Quote: Besides most of that production was for Null sec anyways... And you're confirmed in your dedication to your lie. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11870	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:20:12 - [168] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Protip... the biggest bubbles are the places with the most destruction in that image... and those are in HIGHSEC Specifically, Jita, Amarr, a couple of their outlying systems, and not much else. If weren't for a handful of systems, literally less than a dozen, highsec would have functionally zero loss compared to everywhere else in the game. Please, cry more. Quote: While the left side is completely irrelevant Then why were you blathering on about it, while lying about how the left side shows more production in null than in high, when that is obviously and observably another lie? Stop lying. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:37:09 - [169] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: I never said production was done IN null, I said it was done FOR null. How is production done for null if your lie claims that they lose so much less ships? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:45:57 - [170] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: I never said production was done IN null, I said it was done FOR null. How is production done for null if your lie claims that they lose so much less ships? Because the only thing made in this game is ships right? Nice try. You can't even keep your lies straight anymore. Just give up dude. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:33:40 - [171] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Why call a lie anything other than what it is? Because it hurts their feelings when they called out on their bullshit. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:38:16 - [172] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: http://evelostfound.blogspot.com/2015/01/is-pve-safer-in-high-sec-or-null-sec.html This was a very nice and recent analysis using not only ship death/npc ratios but also ship death value. Their conclusion? Null PVE is completely broken because of how safe it is. Even the worst people at defending their ratters (CFC) were more than 3x safer in terms of real isk value than comparable highsec systems. So how do you explain the fact that we are taking over three times more losses than people in highsec despite the fact that highsec has six times more population? Oh that's not relevant because it doesn't serve their narrative. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:53:59 - [173] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: baltec1 wrote: Feel free to find where I have lied. Feel free to find where anyone else has lied. The alt has in the last few pages notably. You, across the whole thread. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:56:45 - [174] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: Again, you can't argue numbers. NPC kills in nullsec are not lower by a significant margin compared to highsec. So you have 1/6th the population as you guys claim but only 25% less npc kills.... must mean you are all carebears. Primary source of income in null is from bounties. Primary source of income in highsec is LP. We have to kill a lot of NPCs in null to make isk while high sec players need to do missions for LP, killing rats is secondary at best. Aww, you gave it away. I was wondering how many pages they could go before they managed to figure that out. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:04:11 - [175] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: More people do die in Highsec than null... API data proves that And once again with the lying. Concord's kills count for those, since they added them to the killboard pulls. So for every person killed by suicide gankers, one or more people are also killed by Concord. That makes the number less than half of what you claim it is. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:06:07 - [176] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: So now you just want to cherry pick? No, you do. That's the entire basis for your argument, lies of omission. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:15:30 - [177] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Maybe, but given that you guys are cherry picking just as much as you are accusing him of, your argument is tainted. We're not. Pointing out that he deliberately omitted important, and putting it back in is not cherrypicking. You don't get to change definitions to favor yourself, or try and put up some false equivalency here. Quote: No one has answered the relevant question of why we should ignore the fact that despite the population density differences, null carebears just as much as hi-sec. That's not a relevant question at all. In fact it's a blatantly off topic lie. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:21:11 - [178] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: and the whole point of the discussion is the relative safety of null vs hi-sec when you pve Actually, the whole point of the discussion is Hyperdunking, not that lie you just said. You and that other monkey are just derailing the thread by lying incessantly in a "grr nullsec" narrative that no one but you believes. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:25:18 - [179] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: But at the end of the day if there were 100% of that population number in highsec in PVE, then the numbers on the API would show a large difference between the two. Another lie. No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:28:24 - [180] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: But at the end of the day if there were 100% of that population number in highsec in PVE, then the numbers on the API would show a large difference between the two. Another lie. No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec. BS Anoms are guaranteed to respawn, belts always get new rats. How can you with a straight face call ME the liar? Yes, I call you the liar with a straight face. Or are you actually so ignorant as to understand how anoms work in proportion to population density? Both are equally damning of your own argument, as well as the remaining shreds of your credibility. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:33:33 - [181] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No, it would not. The resources of nullsec are finite, and rather small in comparison to the literally limitless missions of highsec. Actually that's not true. Given that you acknowledged that things like asteroids infinitely respawn, and npcs also exist in null sec space, (as well as missions) then null sec space also has infinite resources. And yet more lies. Anoms are not infinite, nor infinitely scalable to population size. Missions are. And somehow, you dispute this fact. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:37:10 - [182] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Anoms respawn after they are finished, so yes they are infinite... also there are missions in Null as well... also belt rats respawn every tick. Because you said it doesn't make it fact... He really is this committed to the lie, folks. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:45:51 - [183] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Proof is that if everyone was blitzing for LP then no one would run anything but SoE, Fed Navy and Republic Security. Yet we know that people run missions all over, for all corps. You're actually this dumb, aren't you? People don't run all for one group because it would devalue their LP. Diversity in the market is the natural response. Missions are blitzed precisely because LP reacts neutrally with inflation, what's more, whereas bounties decidedly react negatively. Do you even play this game? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:20:42 - [184] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: So now who doesn't want to put effort into it Still you, and the other people crying about how the safest space in the game is too dangerous. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:22:39 - [185] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: baltec1 wrote: Most people these days have two monitors, its damn easy. I have two monitors. Its still damn hard. But I ask again, have YOU actually tried to do this? I have. When I still did PvE on a semi regular basis, it was my standard operating procedure. I have one monitor as well. It's exceedingly easy. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:28:14 - [186] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: When I still did PvE on a semi regular basis, it was my standard operating procedure. I have one monitor as well. It's exceedingly easy. Please detail this procedure. I'd like to know how you actually "blitzed" anything while still being able to salvage everything. See, Windows operating systems have a keyboard function that helps with this. By pressing Alt+Tab, you can swap between game windows very quickly. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:32:32 - [187] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: See, Windows operating systems have a keyboard function that helps with this. By pressing Alt+Tab, you can swap between game windows very quickly. So you don't have a procedure then? That is the procedure. Well, that and having half a brain. Missioning is exceedingly easy, and salvaging and looting easier still. The two do not somehow magically combine to equal something even remotely hard. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:36:32 - [188] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: I never said missioning or salvaging was remotely hard. Yes, you did. Valterra Craven wrote: I have two monitors. Its still damn hard. But I ask again, have YOU actually tried to do this? I have. Liar. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:41:32 - [189] - Quote And there we are with the lies again. It is not impossible to blitz and salvage at the same time. It is, in fact, rather easy. All you're doing is telling all of us just how bad you are at this game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:43:08 - [190] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Valterra Craven wrote: Example A. your honor: Then you are incompetent, one or the other. Both. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:49:05 - [191] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Then please, detail your exact procedure down to the minute detail No. And I'm not going to teach you how to tie your shoes, either. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:54:22 - [192] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No. And I'm not going to teach you how to tie your shoes, either. That's fine. Guess education isn't the answer afterall. Either that you can't actually prove that you can. No, I'm just more than happy to let you wallow in mediocrity. You deserve nothing less. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:01:23 - [193] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: I never said Multiboxing wasn't easy. You literally did. I even made sure to quote you a while back so you couldn't edit it out. Stop lying already. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:06:35 - [194] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Where I say no such thing... You even quoted it, and you still lie about what it says. No, multiboxing is not hard, not in missions, not in salvaging, not in almost everything. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:07:35 - [195] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: That according to my experience is true. That's because you're bad at the game. Almost incomparably bad, since I am a complete slouch at PvE and yet I can still do it. baltec makes me look like a novice, in comparison. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:10:25 - [196] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: What is hard is BLITZING and LOOTING/SALVAGING AT THE SAME TIME. No, it's not. At all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:11:20 - [197] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That's because you're bad at the game. Almost incomparably bad, since I am a complete slouch at PvE and yet I can still do it. baltec makes me look like a novice, in comparison. Then prove it. Prove that you're bad at the game? I don't have to, you're the one who said that you can't perform a basic task. That'd be like me saying that I can't undercut a buy order. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:21:25 - [198] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Are you REALLY this bad at EVE that you cannot even figure out how to use duel screens? Of course they are. That's why changed tracks so swiftly away from their bullshit narrative, and into self defense with full steam. At all costs, no one must know that they aren't a real player. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:27:29 - [199] - Quote baltec1 wrote: so while you cant even figure out how duel monitors work this guy is multiboxing an entire incursion fleet. baltec, clearly he isn't really doing that. Because the bad player told us it was impossible, remember? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:36:21 - [200] - Quote This is delightful, they're so incoherent that they can only repeat things back at everyone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:42:05 - [201] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: This is delightful, they're so incoherent that they can only repeat things back at everyone. Lol, yeah because repeatedly calling people liars is soooo different eyeroll Categorically, yes. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11871	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:46:18 - [202] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Categorically, yes. I disagree. You can't, by definition. You also can't tell me that the sky is red, in case that was your next move. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11873	Posted - 2015.02.22 06:53:15 - [203] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: What I'm trying to say is that cooperation is the antithesis of conflict, and conflict is why we play. If you structure income so that the conflict over it is so intense that a secure income can only be achieved through cooperation, you eliminate conflict. The status quo eliminates conflict anyway. It's entirely disingenuous to promote it for the reasons you're listing above. But then, from looking at your recent posts, it's fairly clear that you think the total elimination of conflict is the way forward, so I really don't see why you think anyone will listen to you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11877	Posted - 2015.02.22 10:59:23 - [204] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: You do this with a lot of your statements - forgetting that there is space outside highsec where things do happen on a fairly regular basis. By not derailing the conversation? Your statements were talking about highsec for crying out loud. Quote: Cooperation on such a mass scale that conflict becomes a genie to be unleashed by the blob at their whim for their amusement...not so good. You're attacking a strawman. I have not suggested such a thing. I have merely said that highsec is too safe, and too lucrative. And the ridiculous disparity in population makes that inarguable. Both of those things need toned down by a fair bit, so that other areas of space are not so unattractive by comparison. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11877	Posted - 2015.02.22 11:22:11 - [205] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: I listed out all the changes that have made it easier for the hunters to get kills And dishonestly ignored the long, long list of safety buffs that have been made. Quote: I am now in hisec in the main becaue it has been made to easy to catch and kill me as a solo and small group player, reducing income will have no impact on changing my mind on that issue at all. This discussion, this very thread, is not about anything but highsec ganking, most specifically the form of it known as Hyperdunking or Globbing. Stop with your angry, ranty little tangents about how you got kicked out of nullsec, and how you hate interceptors because they're the (one non cov ops) ship in the game that can catch a ratter thanks to the still hilariously overpowered local channel giving instant intel. I get it, you're angry that CCP has ever done even the slightest thing to buff people who want to hunt other players. You need to get over it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11879	Posted - 2015.02.22 11:29:12 - [206] - Quote You don't sound like you're trying to convince me. You sound like you're trying to convince yourself. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11879	Posted - 2015.02.22 11:56:20 - [207] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: baltec1 wrote: Dracvlad wrote: And he hangs on to 41 killed, rubbish, we are talking Goons not CFC! In that case compare us to one organisation in osmon not the entire population. Oh look at that, we lost more than any organisation there. I don't really need to reply to that, the absurdity of your argument is obvious to anyone with a brain and the willingness to use it. You might as well just admit that you're tweaking stats to support your pre-conclusion. Because your argument keeps changing on every page, so anyone who's read it already knows. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11895	Posted - 2015.02.23 12:44:10 - [208] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: I have explained it above, it is pretty evident. I've been awake for 36 hours (thanks, Army!) and it's evident even to me that you're bullshitting your numbers. Quote: However as you are a member of the Church of HTFU I hardly think it matters Ad hominem, and an obvious one at that. You have nothing. And everyone here can see it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11895	Posted - 2015.02.23 13:11:23 - [209] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: First of all I hope your RL problems sort out and am sorry to hear that you have problems. It's the job. We might ***** and moan(and we all do), but nobody ever joined the Army to be safe, warm and dry, nor come home at 5 every night. The rest of your post is just rantingly attacking a strawman that you've made of everyone who gives a damn about non consensual PvP, and I won't bother addressing it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11946	Posted - 2015.02.28 10:48:56 - [210] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Do people want guys like him to do real PvP or not in this game? There is no "real" PvP in EVE Online, because that implies that there are things that don't fit that category. Oh, and trying to say that highsec should be safe, just so that your "friend" can carebear there and lose ships elsewhere is a facile argument at best. Loss can and should occur in highsec, not just low and null. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11952	Posted - 2015.02.28 14:36:04 - [211] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Again putting words into my mouth, what I am pointing out is that with all the buffs to the ability to catch people, activities that people did to support their PvP are becoming more difficult along with the ease of ganking in hisec. And what we're pointing out is that you're being disingenuous, since you're deliberately omitting the many, many buffs to safety that have been made in this game. Most of what you're complaining about is d-scan immune ships, what's more. And those things barely put a dent into the sheer power of local chat and d-scan, the two most powerful defensive tools in the whole game. Frankly, some way to get past the otherwise infallible d-scan without resorting to a cloaked ship were long overdue. Quote: Do people want guys like him to do real fights or not in this game? You are posing it as though, without highsec being perfectly safe for your "friend" (personally, I think it's you) to carebear in, it will not happen otherwise. This is a false dichotomy. That said, as you posed it, my answer is no. If it comes at the cost of non consensual PvP being allowed in highsec, then your "friend's" tightly restrictive, binary proposition is not acceptable to me. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11958	Posted - 2015.03.01 00:30:39 - [212] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Remember, a lot of investment in self-worth is involved when declaring onself a PVPer and then using that as a vehicle to look down on everybody else. Heh, now that's one I haven't seen in a while. Have you just lost your mind recently, resorting to age old tropes like this? I hate to break it to you, but I'm a happy, well adjusted individual. Quote: When Karous logs off he goes back to his real life of being an underpaid mercenary for global banksters. Oh, I'm rather well paid for that, thanks. The free college in particular is rather fulfilling, since you can take classes on a whim just for personal enrichment. It's surprising how taking away the overriding goal of "college" makes it so much more fun. Quote: It's almost as if the Church of HTFU (or maybe the doctrines of CODE. were intended this way?) does NOT want "the rest of the game" to be looked over for it's flaws and instead pulls a Goebbels on the matter by repeating the same set of lies enough times to make it seem true. That, or we've played the game long enough to realize that everything is interconnected. Nerfing highsec would be the equivalent of buffing every other area of space. And it wouldn't create runaway inflation either. See, you ***** and moan a lot lately, but I have yet to see you lay out what you actually want. Merely sling mud at people who are trying to fix the problem. But I don't see you offering any solutions, just grandstanding about how bad you think we are. The rest of your post is just sour grapes, so I ignored it. You need to lighten up. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11969	Posted - 2015.03.04 12:42:13 - [213] - Quote Erasmus Grant wrote: What kind of world would alot a clone with a consistent criminal record to be reactivated, at least without some kind of imprisonment? A world where the people doing it are immortal demigods with wealth that exceeds the gross domestic product of entire star systems. Or Kennedys. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13164	Posted - 2015.05.27 23:49:58 - [214] - Quote Maxpie wrote: Nobody seems to have a real answer to this question. What, as to why bumping is not a mechanically hostile act? For starters, because it happens very frequently over the course of normal gameplay, with no hostile intent. Secondly, as a result of the first point, the game engine is quite literally fully incapable of determining intent of someone who is involved in a bump. And thirdly, because recoding the game's base physics engine is something that CCP is literally not capable of. Quote: I have no issue with ganking freighters, but I don't think someone should essentially have the ability to keep me from being able to log off for an unreasonable amount of time. Then fly with a web escort. The rules for "harassment" require you to have made an effort to move away from someone bumping you, and no, pushing the "warp to" button a few more times doesn't count. Quote: I have choose between geting ganked while offline, or to stay up all night at the whim of someone else, because someone wants to lock and bump my ship endlessly? That's just poor gameplay. Put a time limit on it, for example, say gank within 20 minutes or let the ship go otherwise you are griefing. Or you can play with more than half of your ass, and never encounter this situation in the first place. As I said above, use a web escort. Oh, and "griefing" is what CCP says it is, not whatever mealy mouthed carebear definition you're trying to foist. This is, by the only definition that matters, not griefing. Get used to it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13169	Posted - 2015.05.28 23:08:07 - [215] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: You do realize there is a difference between Concord and Faction Navies right? They really don't, I believe. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13257	Posted - 2015.06.01 20:29:20 - [216] - Quote Maxpie wrote: Not everyone has a web escort and it shouldn't be required for them to have one if they want to be able to log off and go to bed. They're not "required", but if you choose not to use proven measures for defending yourself, you're rolling the dice. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13257	Posted - 2015.06.01 20:46:01 - [217] - Quote [quote=Headhunter DK] What are you going to do about machariels bumping freighters or similar large ships in high sec? as i see it, it in an unfair and abusive use of game mechanics, because you have no method of retribution or escape whatsoever. Wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13711	Posted - 2015.07.16 14:29:03 - [218] - Quote Kandu Harr wrote: Globby doesn't want you to know how easy and profitable this is Easy? It often takes fifteen or twenty minutes of sitting in open space, for anyone to just pod you if they feel like it. Nevermind that, like everything involving a freighter, getting someone with webs mitigates being caught completely. Like every PvP interaction, it's only as "easy" or "profitable" as the dumbasses on the other side make it for us. And if you're the one I think you are, you made it very easy indeed with your anti tanked freighter. Post your lossmail. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13716	Posted - 2015.07.17 02:41:13 - [219] - Quote Ionsei Kubarick wrote: the simple fact is that Concorde is in the game to deter habitual, unlawful aggression in high-sec. Wrong. It exists to punish the same. That may serve as a deterrent to some, but it doesn't to others, and that is working as literally intended. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13718	Posted - 2015.07.17 05:44:37 - [220] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: Kandu Harr wrote: Black Pedro wrote: stuff Red Frog rates nearly doubled today. ganking was indicated as one of the factors, with April May and peaking in June. Well more like 50% unless you are sending stuff on very short one or two system hops. Ganking is obviously a factor in the increase but presumably other factors like the cost of a PLEX needed to sub a freighter alt has gone up and the 30% drop in players logged in compared to 6 months ago must to some extent have effected the freight business. Ding, you got it. Their prices directly reflect the amount of time they want to put in to plex the account doing the hauling. They aren't the only ones doing a rate hike, either. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13720	Posted - 2015.07.17 18:47:05 - [221] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: You are just being silly, again..., the duel is also a way that the anti-gankers have helped people get away, by webbing them, which has been used very well by certain gankers. It is rather more of an issue in not verifying the person that is offering to help, which is panic related. Are you guys actually that ******** as to not have the freighter pilot be the one sending requests to the webber? I mean jeez, this is like, a five year old best practice for goodness sakes. Freighter pilots should be set to auto refuse, that's a no brainer. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13720	Posted - 2015.07.17 20:00:31 - [222] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: all hot and bothered I know it's a defensive tactic to try and treat derision pointed in your direction as you having upset someone, but you're being too obvious. Seriously, if you anti gankers have been telling people not to turn off duel requests, you've done us a huge favor. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13720	Posted - 2015.07.17 21:05:01 - [223] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: ^^ Entitlement and laziness, as in not taking precautions and thinking that they can sail through a chokepoint with impunity because it's hisec are people problems, they are not game mechanics problems. The people you're trying to save can't be bothered to even make an attempt to save themselves, that must be so frustrating. Of course it's entitlement and laziness. Stupidity too, if you ask me. "Ganking shouldn't be so profitable!" Then stop hauling seven billion isk in an anti tanked Fenrir, you morons. "Ganking shouldn't be so easy!" It's made much easier when you're autopiloting. They are the source of their own problems, and the refusal to admit that is the source of all of these angsty whines. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13721	Posted - 2015.07.18 11:52:28 - [224] - Quote Maenth wrote: Police are supposed to be a crime-prevention force and not 100% a crime-reaction force. Wrong. Hell man, that's not even true in real life. Quote: kinda like how people get arrested and then put in jail for at least a little while and not just immediately released. Capsuleers are not "people". We are just short of gods. Any analogy to real life is basically invalid from the outset merely by virtue of this fact. Quote: The real issue is risk vs reward. For hisec grankers the risk[cost] is very low while potential rewards are very high. The rewards are entirely based on how stupid the haulers are being on any given day. And, like any PvP interaction, risk is determined almost entirely by how much effort is being put in by the opposition. Put in zero, and yeah, we have an easy time of it, working as intended. Quote: On top of that, the legal penalty or cost for a life devoted to crime within civilized society is extremely low. New Eden is not a civilized society. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13721	Posted - 2015.07.18 11:56:19 - [225] - Quote Maenth wrote: I understand and actually appreciate the reality, but EVE is supposed to be all about risk/cost vs reward and criminals should have to really play that harsh game along with the haulers and wormhole corps and sov alliances. You want the only playstyle in highsec that actually has consequences built into it to have even more stacked on top... so that you can commensurately reduce your own risk to actual zero. People like you don't get to talk about risk vs reward, you don't even know what it means. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13725	Posted - 2015.07.19 21:05:40 - [226] - Quote Kandu Harr wrote: but with the new evolution of hyerdunking there has not been an evolution in the counters to it. Because the counters for it are nigh-perfect to begin with: Don't be afk. Fly with webs and a scout. Don't massively overload your freighter. The vast, vast majority of ganks are thereby averted. Quote: it is also fair to mention that unlike traditional freighter ganking, only 1 character now suffers the security loss for the illegal aggression (which has always been one of the risks/results of illegal aggression). Wrong. At least one other character is required to pull Concord to do this in higher security systems, and they suffer sec status loss as well. If you don't even know how this works(and you have demonstrated repeatedly that you don't), how do you have the gall to come on here and lecture people about it? Quote: i suggested that a criminally flagged character not be allowed to board a ship in high security space, as a way to balance the new hyperdunking. That's not "balance". That's "delete". Like every carebear you don't want balance, you just want even more safety than the disgusting amount you already have. Pathetic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13725	Posted - 2015.07.19 21:18:36 - [227] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: If you ignore all other sources of risk in highsec, then yes, you are right. But in reality there are other risks, so you're wrong. Characters in NPC corps are immune to wars. Without ganking, they have zero risk of non consensual PvP interactions. That's the facts on the matter, whether your narrative wants to admit it or not. If you're trying to claim "accidentally pressing the self destruct button" counts as risk, be my guest, but I doubt that even you would take that position. Quote: I was under the impression "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13725	Posted - 2015.07.19 21:38:07 - [228] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: ]First off, no they don't. They can still be baited into flagging themselves for combat. "flagging themselves" Consensual PvP, even if it's on accident. They did it themselves. Quote: So are you saying that's not how it works? No, I'm mocking the fact that you know so little about this, but choose to pontificate on it nonetheless. It's really rather amusing. But then I never expect intellectual honesty from you anyway. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13725	Posted - 2015.07.19 21:55:31 - [229] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: TBH, aren't you one of these "undock is consent" people? That's too much of an oversimplification if you ask me. Undocking is the acknowledgement, whether you know it or not, that PvP is a possibility. Because EVE Online is a PvP game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13725	Posted - 2015.07.19 22:12:35 - [230] - Quote Kandu Harr wrote: the stats show hyperdunking > than that. You're laughable. It's basically impossible to get ganked when using those tricks properly, let alone dunked, because that's even easier to avoid. Hell, I would be hard pressed to even get bumped by somebody while using webs. Before I joined CODE, my frieghter and I went through Uedama five times a week for nearly six months, and I never once got ganked. So if you're here to provide evidence that carebears can't even manage simple counters and barebones best practices, you have succeeded. Congratulations, I freely admit that you guys suck at this game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13725	Posted - 2015.07.19 22:21:19 - [231] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Indeed it is, but PvP doesn't have to involves shooting people. And? It also does involve shooting people. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

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